.
Feedback

Marriage Licenses Are Only For Generating Revenue (Blog)

Do you really need to ask your government for permission to marry? Absolutely not and find out why as Randi Shannon gives you a brief history on the start of licensing through the government.

Written by Randi Shannon, Iowa Senate Candidate District 34

Recently a survey of several Gazette questions came out to all the candidates running for Iowa House and Senate seats. As you may know I’m running for State Senate in District 34.  I spent a lot of time answering them for the Gazette and even more so for the voters.  I noticed that my opponent, democrat Liz Mathis, did not answer the survey, even though the Gazette endorsed her last fall for having excellent communication skills. The Gazette has said nothing about Liz Mathis’ failure to communicate, which must sting the Gazette considerably.   

One of the 3 part questions was "Should voters be allowed to decide whether to amend the State Constitution to define marriage as only between one man and one woman? Do you support the April 2009 Iowa Supreme Court decision legalizing same-sex marriage or do you oppose such unions? Should the Legislature impeach the four remaining justices who supported that unanimous decision? In response to the questions, I decided to help educate the voters on just how marriage licenses came to be.  I think it's rather fascinating and it's a part of history that no one talks about.

After the civil war, the white southerners wanted to prevent mixed-race marriages, so they passed local laws requiring a license for all black people to get married, but of course licenses for mixed-raced marriages were never granted. Within a short time, it became illegal for the clergy to marry blacks without a license.

The license required a fee of course, and this worked so well that it wasn’t long before the licensing requirement was extended to everyone. The politicians realized that it was a wonderful source of revenue. 

Within a few decades, corrupt governments all over the world were requiring people to get marriage licenses.  Now, more than a century after marriage licenses were conceived, the clergy, who fear the government more than they fear God, refuses to marry anyone without a license. I personally believe that marriage should not be a source of revenue for government.

Please note, that God gave us the right to be married and it is an unalienable right of the likes of which is mentioned by Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence. (Unalienable rights endowed by our Creator.)  

Iowans should be granted the opportunity to vote on this issue! They should be given the facts and then the opportunity to have their say.  As I’ve clearly shown here, marriage licenses are a government overreach born out of the love of money, which is the root of all kinds of evil.  

What say you?

B.A. Morelli (Editor) June 8, 2012 at 07:32 pm
@Joe. It has been pretty civil, which is really refreshing to see especially given opposing views on some of the topics being discussed. Since new people are joining the conversation, I thought it would be a good reminder.
Randi Shannon June 9, 2012 at 03:37 am
I personally believe people should be treated fairly. I personally see "marriage" as a religious ceremony, although many who have researched this take it way back, will disagree. So that is an argument that probably will never end. I’m not going to go all the way back to Nero or Roman Times, I’m here in America and Iowa specifically. I personally believe that if you are giving a benefit or tax relief to one it should be across the board but this is a government victory, you see-pitting people against each other and the people lose out. I believe we should have never started agreeing or complying with the government for a license for this and a license for that. This is government overreach which makes them like a god with control over the people their actions their families their privacy etc. Marriages were done within families or with pastors. I prefer this. If the government doesn't have the ability to track your lineage or keep records on you then I say all the better. As for SS etc., who's going to be getting it anyway-they've already spent it and now you must hope to live to be 80-as they want to collect it from you your whole life and hope you drop dead before you can collect it. As far as being recognized by having a 'license' or if you are same sex and married or man/woman married-it's a government overreach-why beg them for permission?
Randi Shannon June 9, 2012 at 03:37 am
They just see you as a slave who's come a begging and when/if you get a divorce you must beg them again and pay more fee's and God help you if you had children. They become property of the state. Does this sound like a great thing you'd like to recommend anyone be a part to? So the purpose of my blog post is to educate as many as I can to this and to hope that some will find answers. If I’m elected I will vote to shrink the government any way I can. If it's unconstitutional I will not be in favor of it-that goes for any legislation-so please don't read into that. Now down to the nitty gritty...what you have asked for. I would vote to uphold the sanctity of marriage, that is the word we use here in our nation for 1 man and 1 woman, marriage is the word that is used. That has been the definition. Because someone is of a different mind, does not mean they can ethically change the definition of words to suit themselves. Civil union is another way of saying you are 'partners' and receive the same tax benefits or SS income or whatever are in those 1600 benefits.
I am very open and work very hard to clearly communicate situations and positions on them. I appreciate feedback that I can learn from. Any remaining disagreements will be resolved at the polls. Three Iowa Supreme Court justices learned that people do have a say about how things ultimately get decided. I strongly support the people’s right and responsibility to have their say. Joe, I look forward...
Randi Shannon June 9, 2012 at 03:39 am
to meeting too, as well as anyone else that wishes to meet. Again I appreciate all the posts and I'll see you on the next blog!
Robert E June 9, 2012 at 04:08 am
Through most of human history and in most cultures the most widely accepted tradition of marriage has been polygamy -- one man and multiple women. We're not just talking about exotic island cultures or lost tribes in the African jungle. Polygamy is the family form most often mentioned in the first five books of the Old Testament. For the first 16 centuries of its existence, the Catholic Church held that marriage was inherently tainted by what Pope Gregory the Great deemed the degrading "carnal pleasure" that took place under its auspices. The church decided that a man and woman were married if they had exchanged "words of consent," even if they had done so out by the haystack, without any witnesses or involvement by a priest. Not until 1215 did the Catholic Church make marriage a sacrament, and not until 1563 did it begin to enforce rules mandating that certain ceremonies had to be performed to make a marriage legitimate. Sixteenth-century Protestant reformers had a much more positive marriage a sacrament, and not until 1563 did it begin to enforce rules mandating that certain ceremonies had to be performed to make a marriage attitude toward the blessedness of marriage than Catholics.
Robert E June 9, 2012 at 04:09 am
But Protestant clerics were stricter than Catholics in enforcing the tradition that marriage should be governed by considerations of patriarchal authority and property rather than free choice based on love. In many Protestant regions, authorities forbade impoverished individuals from marrying at all. And Protestant officials often stepped in to dissolve marriages that had been made without parental consent, even if both parties were adult and children had already been born to their union. Most of the "traditions" we associate with marriage are in fact comparatively new. It was only two centuries ago that people began to marry for love rather than for mercenary or practical considerations.
Robert E June 9, 2012 at 04:09 am
Only 130 years ago did men start to lose their legal right to physically beat or imprison their wives. And only in the past 40 years have we established the principle that within a marriage wives and husbands have equal rights in decision-making. Not until 1979 did the last American state finally repeal its "Head and Master" law, which had given husbands the final say over many aspects of family life. Not until 1993 did marital rape become a crime in every state, overturning the millennia-old tradition that a wife was obligated to have sex with her husband whenever he demanded it. Trying to revert to antiquated and unfair traditions is not the answer. We need to figure out how to build on the opportunities and minimize the risks associated with the ongoing modernization of marriage. It helps no one to wage futile culture wars to return to a tradition that wasn't half as clear-cut or advantageous as many people believe.
Aaron Garrett June 9, 2012 at 05:40 pm
EXACTLY.
Aaron Garrett June 9, 2012 at 05:47 pm
Ive "interacted" with them too Joe, if you want to call it that. Above and beyond being talked AT for 10 minutes at a time with minimal back and forth conversation I havent gotten much "interaction". Especially on hot button issues. Those conversations go nowhere fast. Online interaction like this is pretty much ZERO. They have the tool-- but they dont want to use it. Agree with Randi or not, it isnt even the point. At least she is making the effort and having an actual conversation.
Jeff Klinzman June 9, 2012 at 10:32 pm
Randi, I'm uncomfortable with the mentality I infer from you here. You dismiss marriage licenses as a revenue scam, imply those of us who are legally married are dupes or slaves, all in order to conform to the unreasoned prejudice of Republicans who refuse to accept same-sex marriage. I'm also concerned that you are not a good listener, and value your own ideas so much you will not consider reasoned rebuttals: those are qualities which I don't like to see in an elected official who will have to represent the interests of people who didn't vote for her while working with Democrat lawmakers whose ideas differ from your own.
Randi Shannon June 10, 2012 at 12:09 am
Jeff- you like Obama-I don't. Tell us all what you like about him? Please be specific in your answer. Thanks
Jeff Klinzman June 10, 2012 at 12:48 am
?!?!
Wow, Randi, I was appalled when Obama renewed the Patriot Act, dislike his close association with the financial industry, he has been far more aggressive militarily than Bill Clinton, especially in his use of drones as instruments of assassination, and I disagreed with his dithering on abolishing "don't ask-don't tell" and defense of same-sex marriage, so "like" is hardly the word I'd use to describe my attitude towards the man. I'm not the one running for office, you are, so why the interrogator's tone? You presented what I consider a sophistic argument which obscured your opposition to same-sex marriage, and your commentary here has continued to dodge the question. If you oppose same-sex marriage, and will work to outlaw it, then say so. Barack Obama has nothing to do with this debate which, coincidentally, you started...
Joe Stutler June 10, 2012 at 11:03 am
Aaron, how much effort have you put into interacting with them? I have had plenty of one-on-one time with presidential candidates as well as candidates for city council and everything in between, and not just with candidates of my political affiliation. Of course, I make the effort to attend their public events, I participate in "hill day" events with various advocacy groups, I show up to listening posts and coffees and such that various politicians host, I attend various debates.
I'm "friends" with many of 'em on Facebook, subscribe to their email newsletters, and show up for on-line forums. Do you only interact with them in what they might perceive of as negative contact such as complaining or challenging them regarding their stance on a specific issue? Do you ever contact them to thank them for positions with which you agree? Do you ask them to explain why they have a given viewpoint, and do you respectfully listen to their answers? Do you provide credible, verifiable supporting materials when you seek to educate them on a given issue? I find that most politicians and candidates for elected office are much like me, people with a desire to make the world a better place. They have much the same hopes and fears, dreams and desires. I may not agree with them on any given position, but I do respect them for getting out there and trying to make a difference.
Randi Shannon June 10, 2012 at 11:40 am
The thing about writing is often times there is no tone to it, but readers tend to take it the way they are feeling or thinking at the moment. You should call direct and have a conversation with me, you'll find i'm about as easy to talk to as it gets. I found your facebook page and saw something there in your likes about Obama and it would seem to go hand in hand with your writings here. Also it seems from your writing you have a lot of anger of which I don't have and you would find that out when we speak. Writing like this is incredibly impersonal and easy for people that are just the nice people next door to all of a sudden attack and speak in ways they wouldn't normally, because they believe (mostly) that no one will ever be able to put a face to the name. I have made my points clear. I've hardly dodged a thing. Go to the start and read the post. Either way, whatever way you decide to take it, I have made my statements and i've been clear. You just don't like my answer. Government granted marriage licenses are an overreach and are there for the revenue. As for your post about being appalled on the renewal of the Patriot Act, the association with the financial industry, his aggressive military movements, the drones for assisination etc. we ARE in agreement. So maybe you liked his page for another reason, I have had to do that to make comments on peoples pages, so I would understand that.
Folks God Bless You all! I wish you all the best and I thank you for a
Randi Shannon June 10, 2012 at 11:41 am
great dialogue here! Till the next post............
Jeff Klinzman June 10, 2012 at 01:51 pm
I see I'll have to check my security settings, since I thought my FB page was only available to "friends," Randi! For what it's worth, the recession would have been much worse if Chrysler and GM had been liquidated through bankruptcy.
Randi, your contention about the origin of marriage licenses is irrelevant to a public policy discussion. I would be surprised if, should you be elected and should the GOP take control of the Senate, the party would make it a priority to end Iowa's issuance of marriage licenses. You have fallen in line with the evangelical wing of the Iowa GOP by demanding "let the people vote," which is code for opposing same-sex marraige. You have made clear your assertion that marriage is a "religious institution," even though there are civil legal and tax implications for being married, and even though many people, including me and my wife of 31 years, never set foot in a church. I guess, in your mind, I'm not "married," since my wife and I were married by a judge in the Johnson County courthouse. Randi, a gay or lesbian couple being able to legally marry does no harm to anyone. Denying them that right harms them and the society, by declaring them second-class citizens. That's why I become frustrated with this continuing debate: the only arguments I have seen opposing same-sex marriage are either sectarian (like your "marriage is a religious institution"), based on homophobic prejudice, or sophistic (like your origin story).
Randi Shannon June 10, 2012 at 04:02 pm
Jeff what is hilarious is your constant rude response. You believe because I a regular citizen am running you now have the right to kick another human being and you stand on your soapbox bloating like a goat-and yet you say all should be treated fairly and humanely-what hypocrisy on your part . I SAID all should be treated =. I never said a private ceremony OR a bought license made you not married. You OBVIOUSLY have NOT read my posts. I can promise you this-this girl isn't your typical politician and I'm NOT afraid to speak my mind. I have allowed you enough time wasting. We are WE THE PEOPLE, NOT we the states or we the federal government. They don't speak for me.
Jeff Klinzman June 10, 2012 at 04:34 pm
Actually, Randi, some horses "bloat" when you try to tighten the girth: they expand their chests so, once tightened, they relax and the girth fits more loosely. I'm not sure what goats do, but I'm pretty certain it's not "bloat."
You never answered the Gazette's questions about same-sex marriage and the Iowa Supreme Court's Varnum v. Brien decision. I repeat: Iowans may have a "right" to vote on amending the state's constitution, but I reject the proposition that they should vote whether or not to deny gays and lesbians the civil right to become married. Majorities have quite frequently been wrong, whether on allowing interfaith or interracial marriages, allowing women the right to vote, or ending de facto segregation. I'm not "rude," Randi, just direct. I think you have been equivocating here by refusing to give any of us simple "yes" or "no" responses to the Gazette's questions. Do you support same-sex marriage? Do you support the Varnum v. Brien decision? Will you work to pass a constitutional amendment to strip gays and lesbians of the civil right of marraige? Do you support impeaching the remaining four justices who delivered the Varnum v. Brien decision? You owe us straight answes, since you seek elected office.
Jeff Klinzman June 10, 2012 at 05:35 pm
BTW, Randi, here's a Republican fundraiser who may be able to help you out, should you speak up in favor of same-sex marriage:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/10/opinion/sunday/the-gops-gay-trajectory.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120610
Joe Kierpaul June 11, 2012 at 02:05 pm
All, this is quite a lively debate. Let me add something here. Many people who are Christians object to gay marriage. I do, based on the Scripture. However, this does not give me a right to force on them my religious views. It does not give me the right to use state force. Likewise, the gay couple should have no right to force me to recognize their union. I should not have to do business with them either. They should not be forced to do business with me. In a free country, there are certain things we will have to put up with if we want to remain free, some of them are immoral and disgusting. I would advocate that if you go out and be involved in your community, that you can make the moral changes on the culture you wish to take place. The government should not interfere in this aspect either. If you do not like to hear someone preaching the gospel, go somewhere else. It is free speech. The same goes if you do not like someone advocating for positions you do not like. Too bad! In ancient Rome, particularly Corinth, there was rampant prostitution and homosexuality there. Rome never interfered with it. Yet, Christianity flourished there. Why? Because people were involved with the culture and engaged them. Today we have busybodies who are much involved with government force instead of engaging the culture.
Joe Kierpaul June 11, 2012 at 02:06 pm
continued........Politicians will always be there to divide and conquer. This is what they do and how they "stay in office." When realize the government should be small and out of our lives, we will experience a true change in this country. If people want to make a change in a state and use state force, I guess I have to just sit back and take it since I do not engage my culture. What do you think?
Jeff Klinzman June 11, 2012 at 02:19 pm
Joe, like it or not, sexual orientation is a protected category under Iowa civil rights law. It is just as illegal for you to refuse to do business with a person because he or she is gay or lesbian as it is to refuse the business of a person who is black or Jewish. Why do you see exercising such discrimination as an essential element of being "free?"
Aaron Garrett June 11, 2012 at 04:39 pm
"Do you only interact with them in what they might perceive of as negative contact such as complaining or challenging them regarding their stance on a specific issue? Do you ever contact them to thank them for positions with which you agree? Do you ask them to explain why they have a given viewpoint, and do you respectfully listen to their answers? Do you provide credible, verifiable supporting materials when you seek to educate them on a given issue? " -- Respectfully, Joe, I dont have time to be condescended to.
I am active in the Johnson County GOP. I have "interacted" with candidates there. I was CoChair of Ron Paul Johnson County leading up to the Iowa Straw Poll. I worked with our local GOP through the delegate slate process-- very cordially-- as a matter of fact most of the other counties look at the work and cordiality done in our county as an example of how the process SHOULD have went in other counties who had difficulty. I do have a house, a wife, a yard, a dog, and a career which requires ongoing education. Im not retired. I dont have time to rub elbows at events that only happen every few years when someone wants to get re-elected. I do have time to help grassroots activists.
Aaron Garrett June 11, 2012 at 04:43 pm
(cont.) What I dont have time for is for Joe Stutler to query me as to my maturity level and communication skills.
The statement stands. Where are their blogs? It is a great platform, facebook, and the internet. How many of them use it to speak with their constituents, WHILE in office-- not while trying to get elected? Here is one, and THIS is what that looks like in REALITY. https://www.facebook.com/repjustinamash Congressman Amash, agree with him or not, updates his facebook daily and explains EVERY vote he has cast and why he voted the way he did. I dont have time to be pandered to during election years. Maybe once I retire I wont have anything better to do.
Aaron Garrett June 11, 2012 at 04:49 pm
Waste of time Randi. You dont "owe" it to anyone here to feel obligated to reply to condescending posts because you seek public office. This person has way too much time on their hands and much less worthwhile content.
Joe Stutler June 11, 2012 at 09:36 pm
Aaron, please accept my apology that you saw my post as condescending. It certainly wasn't intentional. I don't know you, so I thought I'd ask a few questions to better understand your perspective.I've known many folks of various party affiliation (and no party affiliation) who like to complain about politicians, yet make no effort to actually talk with legislators and candidates.
Again, I am sorry you read my questions as something other than intended.
Robert E June 11, 2012 at 09:38 pm
It's time for people to stop using the bible as an excuse for bigotry. Bigotry and Hatred wrapped in Religion are still Bigotry and Hatred. Religion enables the bigoted and hateful to believe that their bigotry and hatred is virtue.
Robert E June 11, 2012 at 09:47 pm
The problem I have with the Christians is not the religion but the fact that they want everyone to be Christian. They for the most part don't seem to understand that not everybody is a Christian. I for once would like to have a discussion with them on a subject like this with out having to bring up the bible. They can't seem to figure out that saying God said so in the Bible does not convince me. You don't see other Religions coming here and saying to the Christians it has to be this way because Buda says so. Lord Shiva said it should be this way but they always have to tell you what Christ wants. The same chapter of the Bible that calls a man laying with a man an abomination also says eating shellfish in an abomination but you never see the Christians protesting in front of Red Lobster or partitioning the state house to pass a law banning calm chowder because it offends God. The thing I have found is many Christians have very little knowledge of their own bible they only know what their priest/minister tells them but few read the whole thing for themselves. I just get tired of being told I need to follow Jesus all the time.
J Quijana June 30, 2012 at 11:01 pm
Randi, you appear to be quite an adept politician! Soooo many words when the questions posed could easily have been answered in a few succinct sentences.
FTR, you cannot treat people equally & deny gay couples the right to marry. Nor do gay marriages pose any threat to heterosexual marriages. Those who support banning gay marriage are supporting blatant bigotry. States Rights is such a disingenuous dodge...It's nothing more than an attempt to deny &/or limit personal liberty under the guise of protecting the 'rights' of voters to decide deeply personal issues that s/b outside their purview. Individuals can & should make such decisions without the unholy interference of pandering politicians & a judgmental, paternalistic populace.
mike westman July 17, 2012 at 12:43 pm
marriage is a contract between two people. God ...or whoever...is a bystander

Newsletter & Alerts

Get the best stories each day and important breaking news

Subscribe

Not from Marion Patch? Find your Local Patch »

Note Article
Just a short thought to get the word out quickly about anything in your neighborhood.
Share something with your neighbors. Write a new post... What's up? Make an announcement, speak your mind, or sell something
Beth Dalbey (Editor) April 17, 2013 at 10:57 pm
What are the best "green" solutions for weed control?
Willie Wellington April 18, 2013 at 02:08 am
Hi Beth. My name is Willie Wellington and I own/operate Insite Lawn Care and Landscaping. We haveRead More used green products for over seven years now and recommend these solutions for you. The best 'green' solutions are using corn gluten as a preemergent right now. As for post-emergent control - look for a horticultural grade vinegar (10-20% acetic acid) and apply it on a warm sunny day. It is nonselective - meaning it will kill or damage anything that you spray it on. You can also find some people using a product called the Green Guardian. It is an all natural post-emergent and fertilizer. Please remember that natural products take longer than chemical products but can produce better results in the long run while also being better for the environment.
Quality Care, Nature Care April 19, 2013 at 03:34 pm
Thank you everybody for your questions! If you would like more questions answered in the future orRead More just information about your lawn, visit quality-care.com or the Iowa State University extension. Also, don't forget to like us on Facebook for updates on Quality Care and local turf conditions! -Mark, Geoff, and Craig